Posts by Sea Breeze

27

My Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain Moment...

by HiddenPimo in

this is my first post.

i am physically in and mentally out.

well i will not be offering a tl/dr version as that would be too difficult and it would also be an oversimplification of how i got to see the man behind the curtain.. my story begins at the 2016 regional convention of jehovah's witnesses.

Sea Breeze

Enjoyed your post immensely. I couldn't leave quietly, I tried. Eventually I had to take a stand. I owed that to myself. No regrets.

When the Watchtower sinks, I'll be somewhat vindicated. Look forward to futures posts.

70

Do old time present day active JW`s genuinely believe in overlapping generations ?

by smiddy3 in

for the life of me i can not come to terms with old timers in the "truth" who could swallow this interpretation of scripture about an overlapping generation .. when jesus spoke about "this generation" .

are their any real bible students among younger ones any more ?.

here are 3 bible scriptures that confirm a generation is approximately 40- 50 years long give or take a few years .. 1. matt:1 :17 abraham born 2016-18 bc jesus born 2 bc approx.

Sea Breeze

Hi Rattigan,

Then for centuries the truth got contaminated and diluted. But JWs had the intent of seeking that truth of Jesus. No one else has tried or done that.

That just doesn't match up with reality. All cults claim that everybody else has it wrong and they are the only ones to restore , the truth, true worship, etc.

The early congregation elders who were the 1st, 2nd & 3rd generation disciples of the apostles wrote a lot of stuff to each other. They wrote about the trouble makers and their crazy ideas and how they handled it. They named names and false teachings. So, it is pretty easy to find out who the heretics were, what they taught, and what their thoughts were on the matter.

I recommend this book; pretty easy to read.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not seek the truth of Jesus. Even though Jesus was appointed as Mediator between God and Men, the Watchtower clergy inserts themselves in between man and Christ.

This was a teaching completely unknown to the apostles. And, according to them, they must be cursed for teaching such a new thing:

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1: 8, 9

JW's teach their version of the Good News (Gospel) of the Kingdom. But they ignore the Good News of Jesus' Salvation from Judgment and inheritance of immortal life for the average member.

New Testament occurrences of the term Gospel of _______ .

	Gospel of Jesus Christ (or Christ ) – 12 times
	Gospel of God – 7 times
	Gospel of the kingdom – 4 times
	Gospel of peace – 2 times
	Gospel of the grace of God – 1 time
	Gospel of your salvation – 1 time
	Gospel of the uncircumcision – 1 time
	Gospel of the circumcision – 1 time
	Gospel of his Son – 1 time As you can see, the Good News of Jesus , God, Salvation, Peace etc. is mentioned six times more often than the "good news of the kingdom".

Yet, the Watchtower focuses their entire message on the “good news of the kingdom”. Of course the “kingdom”, as explained by the Watchtower is really just another name for themselves (the visible part therof) in their way of thinking. It is repeated so often in Jehovah’s Witness circles that many will go to the extent and say that the bible is a book of government….. which they are quick to point out refers to their own ecclesiastical authority in modern times.

Finally, JW's ignore the fact stated in Phil 2: 9

"God ... gave him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth"

The highest name in the Universe is not Jehovah, but Jesus. JW's don't like that. But, that has been foundational Christian doctrine from the times of the apostles.

Jehovah's Witnesses are among the worst heretics that Christianity has ever witnessed. Jesus only got angered at religious people when on earth. Religious people should think deeply about the implications of that.

Hope this helps.

70

Do old time present day active JW`s genuinely believe in overlapping generations ?

by smiddy3 in

for the life of me i can not come to terms with old timers in the "truth" who could swallow this interpretation of scripture about an overlapping generation .. when jesus spoke about "this generation" .

are their any real bible students among younger ones any more ?.

here are 3 bible scriptures that confirm a generation is approximately 40- 50 years long give or take a few years .. 1. matt:1 :17 abraham born 2016-18 bc jesus born 2 bc approx.

Sea Breeze

Yes.... and no. It's called cognitive dissonance.

JW's start with a belief paradigm. This is their worldview, their lens by which they interpret all data they experience:

1. They alone have the truth

2. Their experts have it all figured out

3. Jesus already returned invisibly

4. The church age (Gentile Times) has already ended; and with that so has the offer for immortality by faith alone. Now, everyone has to work for it by accepting the framework worked out by the F&DS asks.

This is their worldview that they would have to give up if they admit that the Generation Doctrine is nonsense. It is just psychologically too much to ask for many of them. The idea that they might have to live with Baptists, Methodists and bible believing Catholics forever is beyond their ability to accept. They don't want it under those circumstances.

This is not just a small doctrine at stake here. This is a worldview which has their identity intertwined in it. Change it, and they would have to contemplate a whole new identity.

I have noticed a similar phenomenon in the secular world that denies special creation. The now common discovery of soft dinosaur tissue, blood vessels, blood cells and proteins going back as far as the Juriassic Periond 145 million years ago, should have proved that the long ages attributed to these animals are extremely unlikely, if not impossible. It creates for Creation Deniers their very own Generation Doctrine.

People's identities are tied up with the worldview they have adopted, making it very resistant to change.

6

Need a recording of Top Shelf Tony speaking on respecting the conscious of othersthers.

by Wasanelder Once in

i want to make a youtube video using the liquor store footage and tony speaking on the importance of respecting the conscious of others.

lemme know.

we can't say he's getting drunk but he sure didn't consider the way others would view his actions.

Sea Breeze

I think that the best video for this latest fiasco would be one contrasting the WT video of the girl giving up her ice cream so she could donate to the WT, with an image of Tony with a basket full of a thousand dollars worth of whiskey on a Sunday morning.

That could be powerful and devastating optics.

11

Suicide; and Jehovahs Witnesses

by zeb in

jw
friends

as one who has been personally affected by suicide i read just now of a posting here today the tragic note being "my bridesmaid hanged herself" which we gather she had been shunned... well over the past many months we have seen a library of information, which continues to grow, on the sex abuse saga and most recently the revelations with a myriad of escape clauses a new 'policy' pulled like teeth from the wt on that matter.

this piece of prose is made available to any jw who requests it so the wt says.

it is well revealed out of the carc that the % of abuse in the wt world is higher than outside it.. this brings me to the matter of suicide.. .

Sea Breeze

The April 2014 Awake is on Suicide:

Here's some of that wisdom:

According to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, “studies have consistently found that the overwhelming majority of people who die by suicide—90% or more—had a mental disorder at the time of their deaths. Often, however, these disorders had not been recognized, diagnosed, or adequately treated”

Duh. Then the have the nerve to say this:

"People who care. Your life matters to others—including your family members or friends who may already have expressed concern for you."

It never occurs to the Watchtower that they themselves are probably one of the greatest causes of suicides (including the slow kind with drugs and alcohol) when they order a family hit job on those that dare to question their authority.

They offer a simple solution to the problem: All you have to do is accept their lies and keep your mouth shut to have family and friends.

For some, life is not worth living under that circumstance or without family connections. They take their own life. The stress is too great. Reminds me of the sad tale of the two brothers that took their own life (separately) related at the end of the Leah Lemini show on JW's that was recently aired....heart wrentching. I'm sure their toxic parents weren't even fazed..... probably figured they were better off.

This is a very dangerous cult, and a real menace to society.

2

This Guy is Funny

by Sea Breeze in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0hmdgjbzdw .

Sea Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0HMDgjbzdw

6

To Rank & File JW's:

by The Fall Guy in

web site, it says this: on the night before he died, jesus told his followers to commemorate his death.

he said: “keep doing this in remembrance of me.” - luke 22:19. according to the wtbts/jw's, jesus had two distinct groups of followers with entirely different "hopes" – the “little flock” and the “other sheep.” .

exactly which group was instructed to commemorate his death by re-enacting the eating & drinking of the bread and wine - and to “keep doing it?” .

Sea Breeze

The apostles made it clear that the Christian message COULD NOT be altered in any way after they were gone. This totally obliterates the trumped up WT doctrine of "New Light"

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1: 8,9

Rejecting the Bread and Wine (and hence rejecting the new covenant) IS A DIFFERENT GOSPEL.

49

The Truth about the bible

by TTWSYF in

it really is common sense, but nobody here seems to recognize or acknowledge this blatant and obvious truth.. the holy bible is the result of the catholic liturgy.

they used these scriptures in their religious practices and confirmed which books would and would not be part of their cannon.

they picked, preserved and promoted these books and gave 'the word of god' to the world.. i know that pisses off some folks, but it is the truth [not the 'truth'tm].

Sea Breeze

Well there is of course a "Catholic" Church ...meaning widespread body of believers. In that sense, yes the apostles started this movement as eyewitnesses of the resurrection.

But what we think of as the Catholic Church today is really the Roman Catholic Church , which places Jesus mother as a co-mediator with Christ, promotes papal authority, and officially teaches that there is no salvation outside of their organization.

Catholic Catechism #969 “Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

Clearly the Catholic Church has lifted titles for the Holy Spirit and applied them to Mary. The title Mediatrix is the feminized version of Jesus‟ title as Mediator. The RCC makes Mary a co-mediator.

Catholic Catechism # 882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the 8 bishops and of the whole company of the faithful. For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."

The Pope sees himself as the visible head of God’s Kingdom on earth as opposed to the invisible authority of Jesus Christ. However, early Christians walked by faith, not by sight. (2 Cor. 5:7). Additionally, one of the Pope’s titles is the Vicar of Christ. The word vicar comes from the Latin word vicarius meaning substitution. The on-line version of the Pocket Catholic Dictionary defines the Vicar of Christ as: “The Pope, visible head of the Church on earth, acting for and in the place of Christ”.

However, this is in serious conflict with scripture. Can there be two heads on one body? … Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. - Ephesians 5:23 1994

Catholic Catechism Paragraph # 82 - As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the Holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

Here the Catholic Church demands their own traditions be revered as if they are the word of God. The Watchtower claims the same thing:

Watchtower December 15, 2008, pg 28 – “Our coming to know „the truth‟ - the entire body of Christian teachings that has become part of the Bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation”.

Simply put, the Catholic Church, the Watchtower Corporation, and others have made the same mistake that many others have made; they’ve added their traditions, good works, and another mediator to “Jesus the author and finisher of our faith”. (Heb. 12:2) Because of this, they have nullified God’s offer of salvation for some. (Mark 7:13)

There is only one way into God’s favor:

I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold , but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber…Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. - Jn.10: 1-7

The NT is a contract between two individuals only... the believer and Christ. There is as BIG difference between the "Catholic" Church (all believers with a one to one relationship with Jesus) and the Roman Catholic Church with their hierarchy and doctrinal heresies.

3

Just wondering...

by HappyBlessedFree in

so for those of you that are christian, what do you do during the memorial season?

for those that have not joined a church, how do you celebrate passover?.

Sea Breeze

Hi Happy,

There is no "Memorial Season" for Christians. There is a "Resurrection Sunday" (sometimes referred to as Easter) commemorating the day Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cdre-w4vSs

49

The Truth about the bible

by TTWSYF in

it really is common sense, but nobody here seems to recognize or acknowledge this blatant and obvious truth.. the holy bible is the result of the catholic liturgy.

they used these scriptures in their religious practices and confirmed which books would and would not be part of their cannon.

they picked, preserved and promoted these books and gave 'the word of god' to the world.. i know that pisses off some folks, but it is the truth [not the 'truth'tm].

Sea Breeze

The "Catholic Church" didn't exist until some time after Constantine converted in 312 AD, However....

Around 250 A.D., Origen likely produced a complete list of all 27 New Testament books–more than a hundred years before Athanasius. In his typical allegorical fashion, Origen used the story of Joshua to describe the New Testament canon:

But when our Lord Jesus Christ comes, whose arrival that prior son of Nun designated, he sends priests, his apostles, bearing “trumpets hammered thin,” the magnificent and heavenly instruction of proclamation. Matthew first sounded the priestly trumpet in his Gospel; Mark also; Luke and John each played their own priestly trumpets. Even Peter cries out with trumpets in two of his epistles; also James and Jude. In addition, John also sounds the trumpet through his epistles [and Revelation], and Luke, as he describes the Acts of the Apostles. And now that last one comes, the one who said, “I think God displays us apostles last,” and in fourteen of his epistles, thundering with trumpets, he casts down the walls of Jericho and all the devices of idolatry and dogmas of philosophers, all the way to the foundations (Hom. Jos. 7.1).

As one can see from the list above, all 27 books of the New Testament are accounted for (Origen clearly counts Hebrews as part of Paul’s letters). The only ambiguity is a text-critical issue with Revelation, but we have good evidence from other sources that Origen accepted Revelation as Scripture (Eusebius, Hist. eccl. 6.25.10).

Article

My thoughts: The early church leaders (disciples of the apostles) wrote a lot of letters to each other, mostly to deal with heresies. In those letters, as a whole, a person can reconstruct about 2/3 of the traditional New Testament canon either quoted or paraphrased. Thus, it is easy to see which writings were used as authoritative (as well as what was, and what was not "sound doctrine")..

The appearance of "a list" by Athanasius in 380 AD or so, has little to do with which letters/books were accepted as authoritative by the first congregation elders centuries earlier.